State Torture

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State Torture

by Munzly @ 2009-10-12 – 07:13:51

To get the early news, I have a habit of reading The Australian Online each morning, and would like to call your attention to this article - Quote:

THERE is no longer any doubt that torture was used against prisoners at Guantanamo Bay under George W. Bush. The president's own appointee who headed the military commissions, Susan Crawford, said so in January.

An astonishing, and largely ignored, judicial ruling issued on September 17 in the case of one Fouad al-Rabiah told us that the US government knowingly tortured an innocent man to procure a false confession.

We know that an American interrogator, operating under the authority of the US government, said the following words to a detainee: "There is nothing against you. But there is no innocent person here. So, you should confess to something so you can be charged and sentenced and serve your sentence and then go back to your family and country, because you will not leave this place innocent." - That's from page 41 of the court memorandum and order, releasing al-Rabiah.

Full article HERE - Do you approve of such events?
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- politics
- torture

16 Comments to State Torture

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- SeasideMan ^Pro
- 2009-10-12 @ 09:31:23
Torture is thoroughly immoral, and doesn't work anyway. The Americans responsible for this should be dragged into the open and prosecuted. If what they were doing turns out to be legal under American law, then pressure whould br brought on America to get the law changed.

Tom.
- - Munzly
  - http://poppycock.blog.co.uk/
  - 2009-10-12 @ 09:47:38
  The authorisations seem to have gone right to the top, but what can you do about ex-head's of state and their dodgy cabinets?
  - - SeasideMan ^Pro
    - 2009-10-12 @ 10:15:21
    Probably nothing.
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  - - technomist
    - 2009-10-12 @ 16:34:00
    The legal process against Pinochet suggested it is possible to do something.
    - - Munzly
      - http://poppycock.blog.co.uk/
      - 2009-10-12 @ 16:37:01
      And did they get him? I forget.
      - technomist
        
        2009-10-12 @ 16:39:39
        
        He forgot.
        
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- jenray ^Pro
- http://www.jenniferhunter.co.uk
- 2009-10-12 @ 10:50:00
'Shockingly, although Barack Obama's Justice Department knew the details of this case, it persisted with the Bush administration's attempt to prosecute him. Last week, the Obama administration also backed a legal provision to withhold permanently all unreleased photographic evidence of torture in sites and prisons far away from Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib. And some of us believed we were voting for change.'
Another quote from the article is equally frustrating...can't anybody stop this barbarism? If the USA President who promised to stop it, can't or won't...who can?
Getting intelligence out of prisoners who the prison governors only suspect, not know, have useful information puts everybody in a quandary...the information could save lives, but you can't trust that the information will be correct if obtained by torture, so how do you obtain it?...probably the very best and most humane way would be by some sort of drug that prevented the prisoner from withholding what he/she knew...you would think with all the vast amount of investment in drugs companies, the military would have made sure something like this would be available for them, and, if it already is, and they don't use it because they prefer torture as a means of extraction then they truly are sick...
- - Munzly
  - http://poppycock.blog.co.uk/
  - 2009-10-12 @ 13:44:53
  I think the problem is that of Media engagement. If a decisive U turn had been made in these cases, the Media would have blown it up entirely out of proportion. Obama's admin obviously preferred to keep the things they considered most important in the forefront of the news. Otherwise they could have been mired down on the subject of torture when they wanted to break new ground on something else.
  - - jenray ^Pro
    - http://www.jenniferhunter.co.uk
    - 2009-10-12 @ 15:52:08
    Well, without an alternative to torture, the Obama government is equally hog tied...it can't be make believe that such drugs as I mentioned exist so why aren't they put to use rather than barbaric forms of physical and mental torture?
    - - Munzly
      - http://poppycock.blog.co.uk/
      - 2009-10-12 @ 16:34:43
      Since most of the people doing the terrorism seem to be unconnected with any central organisation, there's probably not a lot to find out. Good old police-work will give far the best chances of prevention. Things like monitoring the sale of certain weed-killers, timing devices etc.
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    - - technomist
      - 2009-10-12 @ 16:38:34
      There are plenty of alternatives to torture - methodical investigation techniques, surveillance, enhanced cognitive interviewing techniques; properly trained investigators do not need these methods.
      - jenray ^Pro
        
        http://www.jenniferhunter.co.uk
        
        2009-10-12 @ 19:57:20
        
        I'm sure there are, but what if all these methods have failed to get the required information...what are your alternatives then? It appears torture is the last resort and is barbaric in its brutality...demeans both the torturer and the people who authorized it...there has to be another better alternative when all else has failed...
        
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        Munzly
        
        http://poppycock.blog.co.uk/
        
        2009-10-12 @ 20:43:02
        
        There is still no excuse for torture in a civilised country. In fact they even acknowledged that by totally inexcusably taking their suspects to uncivilised countries to do the dirty work.
        The only reason they wanted to use torture was that it appeared to be the CHEAPER option - good detection work costs money and requires skill.
        
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        jenray ^Pro
        
        http://www.jenniferhunter.co.uk
        
        2009-10-12 @ 20:48:07
        
        I couldn't agree more...torturing individuals is barbaric, and, unfortunately, there are human beings amongst us capable of performing such acts and of ordering it...long way to go before we're truly civilized...don't think it will happen in my life time...sadly...
        
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        technomist
        
        2009-10-12 @ 22:49:13
        
        Maybe the conclusion is that the investigators are asking or looking in the wrong place. While they waste their time attempting to collect unreliable information fom the person their 'gut' tells them have it, the trail is going cold elsewhere.
        
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        Munzly
        
        http://poppycock.blog.co.uk/
        
        2009-10-13 @ 07:40:18
        
        Good point.
        
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